這是一部紀錄片,有興趣的朋友可以看看,說實話,我膽小、不忍心看;關於是否要推廣這部片子,我和這位朋友有些分歧,全部對話未刪節附錄。
my friend said (1:50 PM):
Earthling 麻煩推薦給大家,如果你看過的話
my friend said (1:51 PM):
你用飯否麼?推薦一下吧
Yule Show said (1:52 PM):
飯否?
Yule Show said (1:52 PM):
飯否還活著?
my friend said (1:52 PM):
昏倒,又被封拉?
Yule Show said (1:53 PM):
飯否從7月8日起就再也沒活過
my friend says (1:53 PM):
哎。。。真是遺憾,那麻煩你在blogger裡推薦下
Yule Show says (1:54 PM):
推薦啥玩意?
my friend says (1:55 PM):
earthling這個紀錄片啊
Yule Show says (1:55 PM):
同時通知你一下,blogger在中國也被封多時了
my friend says (1:55 PM):
http://2human.blogbus.com/logs/51707025.html google video有free version,
my friend says (1:56 PM):
。。。。。
my friend says (1:57 PM):
你看過沒?
Yule Show says (1:58 PM):
沒有
my friend says (1:58 PM):
哦,那你一定要看下 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6361872964130308142#
english version, should not be probelm for you
Yule Show says (1:58 PM):
我正在verycd上下載
my friend says (1:59 PM):
ok, google video is free online, more easy
一定要看,然後推薦一下給你的follower
Yule Show says (1:59 PM):
我看了簡介
my friend says (2:00 PM):
恩,推薦給別人看的時候,如果有的人不懂英文,可以去這裡, 有中文字幕翻譯 http://2human.blogbus.com/logs/51707025.html
Yule Show says (2:02 PM):
但我個人認為給中國人看這種片子沒有任何意義
我們需要關注的是中國人,而不是中國動物
Yule Show says (2:03 PM):
雖然我在博客上也經常寫些保護動物的理念
但是我更覺得要告訴中國人的不是保護動物,而是保護自己
my friend says (2:07 PM):
這些是about 人性,不只是動物, it is all connect, alright?
Yule Show says (2:08 PM):
正因為是人性啊
my friend says (2:08 PM):
你不覺得國人在政治無知的同時,也逐漸喪失良知麼?
Yule Show says (2:08 PM):
中國需要的是民主的理念
中國的良知是被「釣魚執法」喪失的
my friend says (2:10 PM):
人性先於政治
Yule Show says (2:10 PM):
民主不是政治
Yule Show says (2:11 PM):
人高於動物
my friend says (2:11 PM):
沒有人性,民主是假的,美國的民主只是要多很多程序要向人民交代而已
my friend says (2:12 PM):
人不懂得尊重動物,那談什麼高於動物
Yule Show says (2:13 PM):
我不是素食主義者,我是不挑食主義者,主張食用動物的所有部分,讓其死得其所
my friend says (2:14 PM):
沒有人性的話,什麼都是假的,這是所有問題的根源
Yule Show says (2:14 PM):
在中國的孩子還在喝三聚氰胺的時候,討論保護動物有什麼意義呢?
如果人性都展現不出對人的愛來,展示對動物的愛又有啥意義呢?
my friend says (2:15 PM):
意義不是保護動物,人可以吃肉,天經地義,意義在於喚醒人性
尊重動物,能夠身同感受動物的苦樂,宰殺也要人道
my friend says (2:16 PM):
如果對動物尚且如何,何況於人呢?
善的本性並非不吃肉啊
my friend says (2:17 PM):
大部分人,包括國人,根源是善良的,問題在於無知,被矇騙。
Yule Show says (2:17 PM):
連那些黑磚窯、三聚氰胺、斷手斷腳的乞食孩子都不能喚醒中國人的人性,你一部動物紀錄片能喚醒?
這個片子很好,對於那些已經醒了的人很好,對於尚未醒的中國人,你的片子沒有任何意義
my friend says (2:18 PM):
我不是總統,沒辦法在cctv播放,但是我願意一個一個朋友的去說服
我的目標不在於改變全人類,在於改善自己,和自己能接觸到的人
my friend says (2:19 PM):
別對國人失望,80%的國人是農民,他們需要的是瞭解真實的生活
Yule Show says (2:19 PM):
在中國目前的腐敗高壓大環境下,你的說服沒有意義,明白不?
你應該教人怎麼翻牆,怎麼用twitter
你應該教人怎麼讀好英文,可以看英文的報紙
my friend says (2:20 PM):
性不純善,容易誤入歧途。 人的本性變善是最根本, 因為國外未必善良,
my friend says (2:21 PM):
疫苗還有說法是美國軍方的減少人類的武器呢
你說中國人,哪裡躲去? 推翻了,又來新的
my friend says (2:22 PM):
美國人什麼時候被告知ufo真相過?
Yule Show says (2:22 PM):
國外未必善良,那是總體得90分的未必善良,國人未必不善良,那是總體得20分的未必不善良
為什麼要推翻?
為什麼一說到民主,就要推翻呢?
my friend says (2:22 PM):
CNN新聞不也經過官方篩選麼?
因為GCD不會民主的
Yule Show says (2:23 PM):
你哪聽來的CNN經過官方篩選?
my friend says (2:24 PM):
民主就是一把尺子,在一定範圍內。 有的國家放的長,有的國家放的短
很多大事,CNN是不報導的
my friend says (2:26 PM):
你看到的是一部分的國外民主,其實生活在這裡,和國內沒什麼區別,你也要翻牆,去尋找所有媒體沒有的資料
Yule Show says (2:28 PM):
邏輯混亂,CNN不報導,不是CCTV可以騙人的理由;美國做得不好,不是中國也可以做得不好的理由
Yule Show says (2:29 PM):
這個道理很簡單的,你不能說美國也有牛奶不合格,那我們的牛奶含三聚氰胺就是正確的
my friend says (2:29 PM):
我沒有把中國和美國對比,there is no 對比。 we are all human, and normal human..
my friend says (2:30 PM):
you never know about what gov. doing
never
not reachable , ok?
Yule Show says (2:30 PM):
nope, we are all human but different, we are the human below average to understand the animals’
my friend says (2:32 PM):
understanding is basic nature of human, if we could not return this level, all other thing is bullshit
Yule Show says (2:33 PM):
hey man, if our person can’t get other’s respect as a humanbeing, why do thay give the respect to animals?
my friend says (2:35 PM):
every people should respect animals and humans, no matter what condition. You are perfect right point!! Is that what you mean we don’t have to respect animal? don’t have to respect other humanbeing, if we did not get respect from others?
my friend says (2:36 PM):
come on, there is no return expect, that is nature.. not game, not job need payment
Yule Show says (2:40 PM):
I do not have any offsence for you, but I do really think you are much over the China’s current situation. I agree we should take good treat to the animals, but I don’t think such a movie is took for Chinese.
my friend says (2:41 PM):
what is different you put Chinese compare to western?
Did you put different standard between Chinese and Western people?
and why is that?
Yule Show says (2:47 PM):
Do you really think Chinese and Western people are the s
ame?
my friend says (2:47
PM):
yes i think so.
Yule Show says (2:47 PM):
Do you mind put our discuess on my personal website and open for dialog, of course I will remove your name.
my friend says (2:47 PM):
there are huge western people living the world that gov. told to be
my friend says (2:48 PM):
sure
Yule Show says (2:48 PM):
I am sorry for saying that, on any personal offensive.
my friend says (2:48 PM):
no, i respect you, you love China i belived
Yule Show says (2:49 PM):
Sure, I think I do love China even harder than those are only saying good part of China.
my friend says (2:50 PM):
but my point of view, is not only China, it’s humanbeing.
there is something wrong about humanbeing right now
China is part of it, but not all of it
Yule Show says (2:50 PM):
the world is combined with Chinese and non-Chinese, understand?
my friend says (2:50 PM):
and all the probelm course is human lack of humanbeing;s nature
my friend says (2:51 PM):
not really, there is worse country
believe me ,there is much worse
i think we could communicate, the differfent is you think as Chinese, and i think as humanbeing.
my friend says (2:52 PM):
jump out of China, you will see, there is a lot of common no matter chinese or western.
Yule Show says (2:54 PM):
if a person can’t feed himself up, he won’t care about others, not only for the stomach, also for the spirit.
my friend says (2:54 PM):
human is human, we are all ruling by different gov, this one or other one, yes, we should try to get our own, or try to get better gov. but in the end, there is no gov. could be good as God.
my friend says (2:55 PM):
well, my point, is not we stop eat meat, alright ? you should watch this video first
the video show you how people treat them. there is better way to “eat” i am sure
Yule Show says (2:55 PM):
This video is no problem for myself.
my friend says (2:56 PM):
you have to get is first, if the people like you don’t care about this video, then there might be really hopeless for human
Yule Show says (2:56 PM):
But I don’t think it is good to distrube the video in China.
my friend says (2:57 PM):
don’t you think people should watch it?
that is basic education that excatly chinese people lack of ? no?
Yule Show says (2:57 PM):
All such good-looking, well-mannered things are leading Chinese take the focus from the very point to others.
my friend says (2:58 PM):
did people ever think about this when they eat? no ? did they ever think about different of gov. between western and chinese? no, Why ? BCOS PEOPLE DON’T THINK
there is no very point this without human nature. Let people FREE TO THINK
my friend says (2:59 PM):
put truth infront of them, policatal, animal, 2012, what ever, let them to think
they have right to think for themself
and they should be able to think when they watch these
my friend says (3:00 PM):
otherwise, anthing else is pointless, bcos they loss ability to “think “
my friend says (3:02 PM):
人類卻妄想獨佔地球,經常象對待東西一樣對待地球上其它種類的居民或生命,這就是所謂的物種歧視。西班牙鬥牛節與種族歧視,性別歧視一樣,物種歧視是一種偏見,或者說是因為私立而採取的不公正的態度,為了自己種族的利益而欺凌別的族類。任何一種生命受苦,我們就有道義上的責任,對這種痛苦加以思考。不管生命的本質如何,平等的原則要求:一個生命受到折磨,就意味著所有生命也承受同樣的痛苦。種族主義者會為了自己集團的利益,而破壞平等的原則。當他們自己的利益與別的種族利益相衝突的時候,性別歧視則是為了自己這一性別的人群的利益,而破壞平等的原則,同理,物種主義者將其自身物種的利益,凌駕於其它物種的更為廣大的利益之上,這些歧視的案例,內容不同但都有相同的形式
Yule Show says (3:03 PM):
Ok, ok, stop
Yule Show says (3:04 PM):
I put the video link on my website, and also put the dialog as well. Ok?
my friend says (3:04 PM):
thanks
I would have to stand up for your friend. He knows better about life overseas because he has actually lived there for quite some time by the looks of things. If you are not happy about your life in China, and feel you are kinda left out some sort of freedom, then you should move to overseas. If you cannot, then stop complaining and ensaulting the government. And in the end of the day, you should have your own judgement about the documentary, rather than thinking who’d care about animals when your human rights cant be satisfied. They are totally different things, and you are overly offensive.
Firstly, I never say this documentary is a bad one. Personally, I think it is a very good one. The issue is that I think the documentary doesn’t match the the current situation of China. (不符合中國國情)
By the way, if a person have to move overseas since he doesn’t like the government, then there were no any revelation in the world.
my friend說:”人不懂得尊重動物,那談什麼高於動物”
如果人不懂得尊重自己,那就真的談不上高於動物了。
「倒鉤事件」、「三聚氰胺」、醫療事故。。。許許多多的事情都直接或間接的映射出道德教育的失敗,和價值觀的偏差。這不光引發出諸多的社會問題,而且是對整個國家的未來的一種扼殺。
在談尊重動物、拯救動物之前,應該先談怎麼拯救自己。
不敢說國外人的道德標準如何之高,但就助人為樂這一條,作為生於禮儀之邦的我來說,真是汗顏。。。
別吵啦,這種事情怎麼吵得清楚啊~~白白浪費時間傷感情~~
每個人做自己認為有意義的事,每個人努力做好自己認為有意義的事,不就行了嗎……
動物和人孰高孰低……怎麼不說飯都沒得吃要藝術何用……
我是做廣告創意的,看到你和朋友的對話,頗有感觸。
現在通行的廣告作業模式,是美國人創立並在西方世界完善的。國外的廣告創意,只做一件事情,即將產品的利益點最大化呈現,比如,講冰箱的製冷,你可以很誇張的把整個房間都變成冰窟,講情趣潤滑油,你可以表現巨大的物體穿過微小的洞,如此種種。這其實有一個默認的前提:廣告只是整個營銷鏈條的最末一環,當一個產品被研發、製造、擺上貨架,廣告要做的只是引起注意加深印象而已,所以西方的廣告都很怪誕、意外、引人入勝。
這一切,到中國就行不通了。中國人更關注產品原理、產品質量、產品產地原料等物理屬性,希望在廣告中看到這些實實在在的東西。這是說明中國人更理性嗎?非也,在我看來,是因為中國人活在一個完全沒有誠信的社會,人人自危,人人互防,不相信任何人的任何承諾,一定要自己眼見為實。所以,在「正常人類社會”做廣告的常態,到了「中國社會」就顯得很不合適。
舉個例子,有一種鍋,能縮短做飯時間,在台灣地區,被稱為「快鍋」,在大陸地區,叫「壓力鍋」。兩做叫法,反應了兩種文化。在台灣人看來,只要鍋夠快,我就買賬;中國人則說,你不給我講清楚高壓的原理,我憑什麼相信你會快?!這就是區別,或曰「差距」。
回到你們爭論的這支片子,這是外國人很熱衷的話題,每年都層出不窮,跟廣告一樣,它是有一個默認前提的:即在正常的人類社會,人類應該關注動物的生命與尊嚴。注意!是正常的人類社會,當人還如「人」般被對待的社會,而現今的中國,很顯然不符合這個標準。
當人和動物都失去了基本權利,人的問題肯定要放在首位。
另外我也想提醒你的朋友,生活在自由社會,先把不自由社會在思想中鉻下的印記去掉吧,可能會有點疼。